What are you playing right now?(This is the best sticky)

[thomas]

(M rated content in video, just a heads up)

So uh, I just saw this video on IGN's channel about cartoon violence going too far... and I have to say a lot of those scenes are way too much for me. I really don't feel like playing God of War anymore (that scene where he keeps bashing in the guy's skull...), and the TombRaider scenes also make me extremely uncomfortable. Maybe it depends on the context a bit, because I should mention I love MadWorld and No More Heroes.

Anyone else think some of these developers are taking it too far?

[Windstar]

I'm all for artistic expression and freedom so as far as what's -allowed-, I say anything. I don't think there should be any legal restrictions on developing a game.

Developers should definitely take a minute and think "Is this absolutely necessary or beneficial to the game experience?" In the case of God of War, I think it makes sense from a creative standpoint. It's a game about a muscle-head spartan with a tortured past killing numerous beasts. I don't think he would show anyone mercy that tried to kill him.

I know close to nothing about Tomb Raider but in my head, I always pictured it as being a Rated-T sort of game without gore. Like James Bond or something. If that's right, I think it was unnecessary and just meant for shock value. On the other hand, there's the slim possibility the developers wanted to take the series in a new direction and sort of capture the reality of being a daring explorer. It would make sense but since they're incorporating that into an existing franchise rather than making a new one, they should definitely accept all angry criticism from fans who don't want such an unexpected element in a franchise they love.

I personally wasn't seriously disturbed by it but it was a bit iffy. Something about seeing a woman being impaled and then still being alive to struggle until she slowly dies just doesn't sit well with me. That, in addition to my growing disinterest in realistic games isn't really a good recipe to warrant a purchase.

[TiggyPudding]

(I'm typing this on my Wii U, so excuse any typos.)
I would say yes. Cartoon violence is going too far. The gore itself doesn't really affect me, but it's not nescescary at all. Sometimes, a bit of gore helps set the tone of a game (imagine games like ZombiU if all the zombies were cute chibis - it just wouldn't be the same) but brutally murdering people to the point where you can see their ribcage isn't needed and it's probavly only added for shock.
I wish people would get over this mentality that violence and gore makes all games better, bwcause it doesn't.
(Also don't want people to think I hate all violent games, I just don't like games that are like that just for the sake of it. I really enjoy playing games like No More Heroes! )

[thomas]

Yeah see I see the "artistic choice" that people can hide behind when defending Kratos bashing the crap out of an already-dead man's skull until no facial features are recognisable, but the fact is it was designed as immature shallow violence, a simple adrenaline rush for the pubescent boy. Maybe I need to see it in more context because when MadWorld's Jack does more horrible things, I simply feel it's over-the-top for the sake of comedy.

[Windstar]

It just sounds silly to me that anyone is bothered by a ruthless monster being too brutal. Regardless of developer's intent, if you play the game at face-value, nothing is off. It all still makes sense and I don't see any forced, try-hard, edgey material going on here. It's all aligned with the game and character's tone. And I don't think mature GoW fan's minds will be plagued by the thought of teens getting off to it. Violence is violence regardless of intent. Grandmothers would faint at either one.

[Sr.Gabo]

Interesting question. The "too far" question, in my opinion its personal. Like Windstar said, violence is violence regardless of context. It depends on the individual to consider something is too violent to enjoy it. In the other hand, other persons enjoy the violence or want more, even. I think that the increase of violence in VG is evident, thats a whole new point.

Personally, fictional violence doesnt affects me.

For what I have seen and the little I have play, GoW glorifies violence. I really think they made a game about an angry bold guy god with a sad backstory as an "excuse" to have that kind of game. The mitology in that game is pretty stupid (from the little I have play, I am def talking about something with very little experience, if someone tells me the story is not "kill everyone, then kill the bad god" Ill stand corrected.) Violence for the sake of violence generates negative responses from a lot of people. I think the real problem would be if the players accept violence as "normal" or "forgets" its fictional.

It is also interesting to note the big gore porn boom, Saw franchise basically. Or how USA media gives two thumbs up to violence but will go crazy over a nipple.

[thomas]

Yeah of course it's personal, but when people who enjoy violent games start to go "this makes me uncomfortable", that seems like a red flag to me. I guess the audience will determine, if people don't want to play the game because it's too much, that'll be the turning point. I think a lot of pubescent boys don't have a point like that though, they'll simply take in what they see and eventually become desensitised to it. I'm not claiming this can turn them into violent sociopaths, but I'd be scared if my son was that desensitised. You're basically a torturer in these games, no longer an underdog.

Just curious, I'm guessing I wasn't the only one that played M rated games (mostly GTA3) when they were 14?

[TiggyPudding]

Just curious, I'm guessing I wasn't the only one that played M rated games (mostly GTA3) when they were 14?

I didn't play GTA3, but yeah I've played PEGI 15 and even the odd 18 games since I was about 12. (That was when PEGI was just a guide and not law :P)

[Windstar]

Does it really sound logical that God of War was made specifically to make violence look awesome and teach kids to decapitate people with knives and chains? That can be said about anything violent that involves killing. The second the gamers themselves start deciding "this is too much", it opens the doors for more criticism. It's all or nothing. Be it comedy or violence. Video games have been facing scrutiny for a while now and the last thing we need is to turn on each other right now.

But yeah it's definitely a perspective thing and like I said, the only issue I see is from a creative standpoint but that's something for the developers to decide whether it'll impact their audience or not. But if something makes you uncomfortable personally, simply avoid it rather than demand they stop making it.

As far as kids go, parents need to get more involved and stop expecting the media to raise their children. That's been an issue forever now. There's a rating system for a reason.

And I didn't play much Rated M games as a kid. I was a Nintendo kid all the way. But I remember convincing my dad to buy me Grand Theft Auto III.

And I guess to stay somewhat on-topic, I'm almost done with Oracle of Seasons. I have one more essence to go. I think this may be better than Ages in terms of puzzles, music, and the whole seasons thing but Ages still had a lot of cool stuff that was absent in this game. What I loved about Ages was the storytelling. Veran was a great villain, she controls people and you run into her a few times throughout the game. And when you go to the past, you can see her evil slowly unfolding. She's using people to build a massive black tower and she's disguised as the Queen to earn everyone's trust. Also, I like that Link kind of has a rival in this game. Ralph. He is also on a journey to save Nayru and you meet him a few times throughout the game.

[thomas]

Does it really sound logical that God of War was made specifically to make violence look awesome and teach kids to decapitate people with knives and chains? That can be said about anything violent that involves killing. The second the gamers themselves start deciding "this is too much", it opens the doors for more criticism. It's all or nothing. Be it comedy or violence. Video games have been facing scrutiny for a while now and the last thing we need is to turn on each other right now.

Seriously, I wasn't implying any of that. I don't think kids want to copy what they see in videogames (well, on a surface level -- my gf's nephew does spend the rest of the day copying the moves he sees in Rayman Origins, but that's different). I do feel they can become de-sensitised to violence (hell, I am and I'm sure most people on the forums are), but that's something that should concern their parents.

I also wasn't trying to say there should be laws forbidding extreme violence. I'm very clear with that, entertainment should have total freedom of expression*. I'm just wondering if these game developers don't go "wait a minute, do we really want to sicken part of our target audience?", especially with ever-improving realistic looking graphics. Just a sense of good taste, not a matter of laws.

* total freedom... within limits, of course. I don't think you should be allowed to publicly publish a book with instructions on how to best bomb a mall, or something.

[Windstar]

Oh sorry, the first paragraph was meant for Gabo. It just sounds a bit iffy to put so much money and effort into a game for the sheer purpose of promoting violence.

But yeah, I completely agree in that case.

[Sr.Gabo]

I was responding to Thomas point about the story/setting being an excuse for the violence. I was saying that I thought the setting was the excuse for the violence, in a kinda egg/hen way.

"Does it really sound logical that God of War was made specifically to make violence look awesome and teach kids to decapitate people with knives and chains?"

I wasnt implying that, I should be more specific. What I meant was that the people behind GoW wanted to make a violent and bloody game for older gamers, and that setting and story provided the perfect way to make a game they enjoy making and people playing. Not promoting violence, but having it. Im saying it glorifies violence because it is a very prominent part of the game and it is very explicit, just look at Hercules face.

Basically, I think GoW was made specifically to have a bloody action game, with stuff for older gamers, making an "adult" game (I hate the word mature to describe this kind of thing). And make money

Also, like Thomas said, I never said they should stop making violent games.

but when people who enjoy violent games start to go "this makes me uncomfortable"

Well, thats just awkward

And I cant remember playing any specific M game as a kid. Probably GTA San Andreas, but I wasnt that young.

@Windstar

Cant remember which one it was, but one (or maybe both) of the Oracle games has "animals" that you can ride. That was pretty awesome, I love the Dodongo. Which one was the best?

[Windstar]

It's entirely possible that the premise of GoW was made to accomodate the violence but considering it's a game with a Greek Mythological premise, I'm less inclined to believe the violence came first. Actually, I think it's more likely that that's how games like No More Heroes came to be. They needed a weird premise to accomodate the violence. And it worked. I mean it's not BAD if they came up with the violence first. It's a cool game either way.

But yeah, both Ages and Seasons have the animals. I wish they played a bigger role though. I love Moosh. And I think most people would like Seasons better. My memory of Ages is a bit hazy but I recall there being a lot of "What do I do?" moments and the switching between past and present can get confusing. I think Seasons wins overall. But I still appreciate what Ages did with it's awesome villain.

[Patrick]

What I meant was that the people behind GoW wanted to make a violent and bloody game for older gamers, and that setting and story provided the perfect way to make a game they enjoy making and people playing. Not promoting violence, but having it. Im saying it glorifies violence because it is a very prominent part of the game and it is very explicit, just look at Hercules face.

Basically, I think GoW was made specifically to have a bloody action game, with stuff for older gamers, making an "adult" game (I hate the word mature to describe this kind of thing). And make money

This. Every game in the series has tried to push the boundaries as far as violence in video games go (and tacked on sex minigames). And while there's a heap of sex and violence in Greek mythology, it doesn't mean that every game based on it has to follow that path. Kid Icarus and Glory of Heracles sure don't.

I just remembered that I got the first God of War free from PS+, so maybe I should play that instead of talking out of my ass.

[Windstar]

It also means games don't have to not follow that pattern though. And with silly Greek mythological fiction like the Disney Hercules with a sassy black choir singing and Kid Icarus with credit cards, I don't think it's such a sin that God of War is violent and more faithful to Greek mythology.

I sound like such a fanboy and I've only played one GoW game haha.