Miyamoto talks all about Mario, feels a lot of people at Nintendo get Mario, still wants to be around in 25 years, much more
Miyamoto on whether he thinks about his legacy and the things he’s done before when making new games…
“I don’t really think of things in terms of legacy or where I stand in the history of Nintendo or anything like that. The important thing for us is to make sure that we’re having fun in our job.
So I really try to focus on, again, not only myself enjoying what I’m doing, but looking at my staff, and making sure that they’re having fun in their jobs as well.
Especially when you’re working on a series, there are times when you’re doing some repetitions, some work that maybe you’ve done before. You really want to make sure that the people working on it are approaching the project in a way that they’re not getting bored or frustrated, and that they’re thinking of new things and new twists and new appeals. That’s something we look at as well.”
Miyamoto elaborating on the last question…
“Exactly right. And it’s sort of common among the popular culture in Japan that a creator will take that same character and have him will appear in different manga. It’s also sort of like, maybe, Hitchcock appearing in all his movies. It’s sort of cool to have that character appearing here and there, whether or not they have a large role or not.”
Miyamoto on whether or not he sees himself as Mario…
“[laughs] Yeah, I’m a little embarrassed but Mario is sort of my doppelgänger.”
Miyamoto on whether or not drawing/designing instead of programming informed his game design sensibilities in a particular way…
“Yeah, I think, part of it has been very influential in that my industrial design background has allowed me to be able to take these concepts that I have in my head and be able to put them down on paper.
I have people on my teams do their own drawings and bring out the creation of their own ideas just to make sure that they’re true to what they have in their heads. So, in terms of thinking of design as building a structure into which we put in everything else, That’s the core for what we flow everything into. It hasn’t changed all that much.”
Miyamoto on whether or not he starts with a structure in mind and then fills it in with concepts…
“You’re right. And then you take that and look at how people will respond to this. And you try to make that structure into something that people will enjoy playing and being a part of.”
Miyamoto on what Mario symbolizes for him…
“Well, as I said earlier, I start with the game system [the rules and ideas that will go into the experience] . So I’ll think of a game system and maybe that system is originally the concept for a Mario game, but we realize while we’re doing it that this is more suited to a Zelda game, and we’ll try to do that, we’ll switch characters out.
But, how I think of Mario is sort of as my go-to actor. So, when I’m creating that new system, I start by plugging Mario in to see how he will react or what we can do with Mario in this design. He’s like the trusted guy you throw in to see how the system is working.”
Miyamoto discussing how Mario is dropped in a situation for the player to control…
“The player is the one who is playing the game and Mario is sort of their surrogate vehicle for enjoying that game. And because we know it’s Mario, there’s a sense of reassurance and familiarity. The player can think, ‘Even though I don’t know what’s going on, at least I’m Mario.'”
Miyamoto on what is the most difficult part of sustaining creativity over the last 25 years…
“I look at Mario as being equal to digital technology of the time. When we first started, we were looking at, let’s say, 8-bit limited technology. There are always limitations to what you can do.
But the fun in that, and the job for us is to take that and see what could happen, and rather than complaining and wondering about what we can’t do and wondering, ‘Oh, if only we could do this?’
We create by looking at what we can do and using our energies to utilize that technology to the fullest, to maximize its potential. And of course, as technology grows and advances, that refreshes our ability to look at Mario in new ways, and to be able to do new things with him. And it’s really been for me, a very natural process in that, as technology advances, so does Mario.”
Miyamoto on whether or not he had to play-test Super Mario 64 differently and educate the design team about how the ideas might work…
“For Nintendo, Mario 64 was a big leap for us. Of course, 3D technology had been used in movies and other arenas, but not in any interactive arena. And so, our focus was ‘How can we take this 3D environment and implement it in a way that works in our world?’ And I told people that there are other people working with these 3D environments but, as far as games, we are the pioneers. This is the frontier for us. Another thing that we considered when we were going into the 3D environment was that, of course, people were used to the familiar, side-scrolling Mario territory.
Anyone could pick it up and play [Super Mario Bros.] And everyone knew what they were getting into. But, when it moved into the 3D realm, of course, the perception was that things had changed and that it might be difficult to play. And so, it seemed that we were going to lose some customers who might just think, “I don’t know what that is.” That was too much for me to bear.
And so we really focused for many years on doing this in a way that’s accessible. We’ve always had that focus and I think the pinnacle of our efforts right now is [Super Mario] Galaxy 2. That game was the result of a lot of focusing on how can we make a game that is challenging and familiar yet accessible and playable by everyone? We did that by lots of focus testing and keeping that [accessibility] at the forefront of our minds when moving forward. And I myself played it over and over and over.”
Miyamoto on whether or not it’s weird having reached a new pinnacle with Super Mario Galaxy 2 to go back to the older work of Super Mario Bros. 1/2/3…
“You know, it’s interesting. I think there are a lot of people who think that, ‘Wow, simple is pretty cool!’ They look at the older games, and think of them as amazing. And especially if you see people who are very good at them…We got to see a very excellent player playing through [Super Mario Bros.], and it was just nice to see how much fun he had with it, regardless of whether or not it seemed simple or not. Other people watch the people who are playing, and of course, there’s entertainment in that, too. It’s another way of getting the idea that how enjoyable a game is.
…Even working with some of the younger staff at Nintendo on a sample of New Super Mario Bros Wii., a lot of them, unsolicited, were saying, ‘One of the important things is that we can’t change this element. This is what makes this game.’ So, they understand that some of that familiarity and simplicity is very important, and is excellent to see.”
Miyamoto on whether or not the mushrooms in Mario games come from the myths about enchanted food…
“Whether or not, this is actually a factor or not, we’re not really sure. But, this whole idea of mysterious foods that have mysterious properties comes from a lot of the European folk tales. Of course, you see foods like that in Alice in Wonderland. I’m not really sure if the Japanese folk really knew what we were referencing. But that was sort of kind of where it was coming from. At least I think that’s what it came from.”
Miyamoto on whether or not other folklore/mythology elements inspired parts of Mario games…
“Yeah, like you said, Zelda, of course, does have elements of fantasy folktales with goblins and whatnot. You can see those right away and they are easily recognizable. With Mario, however, it’s more surrealism. You’d see blocks floating in the middle of the air, doorways just appear out of nowhere. That kind of look draws on the work of Magritte.
There’s that sort of surrealistic element of just giving people the freedom to draw–where the drawing is playing the game–and not really being worried about facing it in reality. Players are artists who create their own reality within the game. So that’s sort of Mario. Creating new and surrealistic things rather than being based on anything else.”
Miyamoto on how he feels about maybe those stories moving to another medium again, like other TV or movie adaptations again…
“When we’re creating a game, we have the world that’s there but, really, it’s up to the user to fill in the spaces of things that aren’t explained or laid out for them. Our job as the game creators or developers–the programmers, artists, and whatnot–is that we have to kind of put ourselves in the user’s shoes. We try to see what they’re seeing, and then make it, and support what we think they might think.
So, if we’re playing, we think, ‘Well, the players would probably want to do something like this or maybe they’re going to do something like this.’ The games need to be flexible enough to hit all of the different users and support all of those possible ideas of what they think might be out there.
Whereas with a book or a movie, you’re basically explaining to people, this is what’s here, we’re showing you what’s here. And for us, it’s sort of the opposite.
…Yes. It’s hard to define the exact nature of the impact on that but it’s definitely a real impact. It affects the process.”
Miyamoto on letting players show him things about things he has built…
“It’s really probably one of the most interesting parts of the job, trying to envision what the player wants to do and how the player wants to play. We then try to create a world that sort of answers what we think they want to do, and that interactivity is super-interesting for us.
Miyamoto on how he feels knowing that the Mario recipe is being reinvented in other games…
“I haven’t actually played any of them! But I’m assuming they’re done pretty well. I think we were just lucky. Super Mario, of course, is sort of the pioneer of that side-scrolling, action-game style, and we’re just lucky to be in that position.
…It could have been somebody else. And even when we go into 3D with Super Mario 64 or whatnot, we revert back to that side-scrolling style so often. If people like it and want to use it, that’s great, isn’t it?”
Miyamoto on whether or not he feels there’s a group of designers at Nintendo who can’t wait to get on to the next thing in terms of technology/if he feels the same way…
“We are always looking at and evaluating new technology. That being said, we’re pretty much looking at some of the same technologies as every other company, you know. But, rather than the technology being the only driving force, we also think about how can we use it.
What can we do with it is where we put our focus. There’s something to be said about taking an idea and the value of that idea [in conjunction with technology]. What’s important is the ability to take that idea and make it more than itself. You can use a lot of different technologies to create something that doesn’t really have a lot of value. What we try to instill and talk to our employees about is taking that core idea and creating something that’s bigger than that idea itself.
…Just like the seed. Yes.”
Miyamoto on how he feels knowing that his games have impacted families lives…
“Well, yeah, there’s a bit of responsibility. I’m a player too. So I’m always thinking about the player and how the player is enjoying their experience in the game. The goal is something that’s accessible to all ages, of course, and all experience levels. With New Super Mario Bros. Wii last year, we were able to bring in a bunch of new people as well as satisfy some of our existing base.
With Wii Party, that’s another game that’s going to be something that’s going to be played by a lot of different people. And so we’re always wanting them to have fun, and we’re always thinking about the user experience, and that’s a Nintendo basic concept.
How are we appealing to the consumer? Because we’re gamers as well. And personally, I want to create something that makes me look cool while I’m playing it. When I’m playing as Link in a Legend of Zelda game, that’s something where I feel like I’m cool because I’m that guy.”
Miyamoto on what fans’ devotion to Super Mario Bros. means to him…
“I’m, obviously, very appreciative. A lot of things that come out of Japan are sort of segmented or taken as, ‘This is from the Orient. This is East Asia.’
Right. Exotic. Where Mario is different…I don’t think people need to recognize it as something out of Japan. He’s become sort of this worldwide easily accessible idea. People like it. That’s great. To learn about kids or see kids dressed up as Mario on Halloween is something I’m very grateful for.”
Miyamoto on what he’d like to see in the next 25 years/how he’d like to see the torch passed on…
“Whoa, I’ll still be here in 25 years! [laughs] I mean, there are a lot of people at Nintendo who really get Mario. A lot of people I’m working with really understand who and what Mario is. Because Mario, as we’ve spoken about earlier, evolves with technology, it’s hard to say where he’s going to be in 25 years.
…That’s right. I can’t imagine it. I’m confident, though, people will still be playing as Mario!”
